We have moved on from days past where certain riders would dominate a heat, session, or even an entire race and now there are riders who are able to mix it up, dice it up, and get right into the action with attempts, skilled though they may be, that can endanger others. To add onto the tremendous gains in skill we are all experiencing, the playing field is becoming more even and overall, more challenging. This challenge can make for some dazzling defeats, and startling wins and passes and that is what downhill is really all about... But these days, some of the passes we're seeing involve riders cutting inside lines that just won't work or won't make sense (unless a proper drift and line is taken), riders grabbing a hold upon another rider and pulling for the pass or even persons giving up their speed to others (so that the boosted rider may make a pass before the line). These are just the sort of thing that we must be cautious about if we're going to keep all happy and most importantly, safe.

Inside lines are a KEY point to downhill skateboarding, as those who are able to make them and have used them know very well. It is one of the few sports in which we can fit two, three, or even four wide going through turns at equal, or in the case of footbraking, differing speeds. Riders who are making inside line passes need to be conscious not only of their directional forward line, but also their outwards direction that can be accentuated, or diminished by proper lines. When one passes on the inside, their line will take them outwards towards the hay, whereas a rider on the clean, smooth line will go from wide, to inside, to outside taking up maximum room in the turn for a minimal amount of time. We're seeing riders who are making unnecessary inside passes (which is especially brutal for those who are taken out by them) as they are able to take out top riders (who arguably have the better line and rights to it).

One way to skate safe in tight areas is to use your hands and body, not your skateboard. When wheels rub, decks get stuck together, or trucks link up inevitably the skater(s) go down. When hands or the body are primary points of contact there is better traction for those who do so as there is another set of wheels to gain traction from (and a body traveling at the same speed to balance with). The same applies to freeriding... Never touch a skater's deck as it is their lowest point thus when moved, has the most leverage over the skater's weight. When it slows down (gets pulled) the skater goes over the front (this is what you see with wheel rub). Use a flat palm when touching riders, never grab!

To pull or to push is to modify the true outcome of your skateboarding vs. those who you are racing with. The leading rider has it and that's it, grabbing and pulling is dangerous for the riders not expecting it and is the lamest you can get for sportsmanship. Be it a qualifying heat or a practice heat, keep it true to skateboarding and your own skills. Pushing a rider forward is a difficult point for most people... Arguably, it is the safest way to race, especially on tracks with only one clean line (Maryhill, etc). As said before with intersecting lines, it is often far better to separate and stay safe. There is a limit to what is necessary and what is judged acceptable and that is up to the judgement of the rider giving the boost, but as far as modifying a person's position with a HUGE boost, that's just hurting the rider that's getting pushed... They didn't earn that speed, nor would they earn the falsified win. Push with a flat hand and only what is necessary to keep you safe.

Along with technique, knowledge, and experience there must be a huge addition to the racer's world known as judgement... Take a look back and gauge your competition, do you really need to take 1st in the heat, or will a solid 2nd keep you in the race equally? These are the things that we all must take into account before and especially during the heat.

Will a pass before a turn gain you the distance you need to use your preferred braking technique?

Will passing a pre-drifter and footbraking in front keep you well spaced in the turn?

Do(es) my opponent(s) footbrake for turns?

What type of line do my opponents take? Does mine differ?

Does my set-up limit me to certain lines (sticky wheels stick, drifty wheels drift)?

What line will a right footer take vs. a left footer?

These are the sorts of things we need to think about before we race... What do the rest think?

Maybe "Racing Etiquette" would've been more of an appropriate title.

The rest is spot on if you ask me.

Is the racer next to me mongo pusher, is he regular or goofy? Is his push foot gonna be in the way of my push foot?

sometimes linking up wheels at the start of a push can cost you a race, and end up with a 100$ t-shirt. Ask Brian Peck...

1) Bad inside line choices in Carnage

2) Pulling on other racers to pass

at Danger Bay.

Interestingly, I don't think either rider I heard about made the top 20.

While it was disappointing, I am really not sure there can be any sort of action, except for the kind K Rimes is taking.

We have a culture on Coast the encourages (even DEMANDS) helmets and safety gear, so I applaud Kev on trying to create at least a dialog regarding a culture of Fair Play in races.

One more thing...We are getting way too big at races to tolerate storming the race hill during racing. We are discussing what action should be taken regarding that at DB8, and will have a clear policy for next year. Rob was REALLY steamed about this, and if Rob thinks it's bogus, I have to agree...After all, he gets all of you safely down the hill each year, and should have the final say on this.

Total bonehead move...What if one of you had taken out a rider still in contention? Would you have paid that rider's entry fee?

Smitty

can i add a rule kevin? the only person that you can push into a haybale or dirt and its ok is merchoo choo

Maybe new racers should be made manditory to volunteer for at least 2 different races and to watch at least 4.. Also attend Safety Meetings before each session/race!

Also, what you said about knowing the styles and skills of your fellow riders is completely true. When it comes to freeriding, we all get used to how the people you're with are going to use the road. Even with familiar friends, it can still be challenging riding tandem with them. Given that, racing against people who are totally unfamiliar and willing to do dangerous moves, just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the sport. Therefore I totally love your idea of talking to the fellow racers in your heat, even if only for a few minutes to slightly understand what they're going to do.

Very good post Kevin. Even though, as I said, I have no experience racing, I can still see exactly what you're getting at. I think it's very true, as well as necessary for this message to get out there.

Sean

PS. just stoked to see, the K-RIMES Soldier of Speed banner is on this page as I type.

to be honest, there was a serious lack of etiquette at DB.

to all the new comers they need to realize that we have something speacal and pure, racing is alot more than getting a win. everyone deserves a fair chance.

i am not going to name names, but i saw a sequence shot of someone boosting someone else after carnage corner so that they could get first in the heat. it kinda made me sick, thats not raceing, and that kinda shit put a bad taste in my mouth.

to add to the rules heres an important thing to always keep in mind,

Even though it may be a "race" we all want to have fun fair runs, Do not rob people of that, we all pay to play.

Some insight on these questions would be good I don't want to go to a race and be a dick. Also Meetings before races would be good for new racers.

Ideas: Volunteer or spectate at least 2 races.

Reference from a reputable rider

Attend 2 or more saturday sessions and have the 'host' agree they are ready.

I think there are lots of ways this could be done, but I strongly believe that something has to be done to seperate kids with their first boards racing pros that travel around the world to race!

Other ideas?

Universal timing system (timed qualifying)

What about courses at different difficulty levels? bronze, silver and gold race courses?

In order to race a silver event, you have to place top 16 at a bronze.

To race a gold event, place top 16 in silver.

Like I said there's lots of ways to do this.

any other ideas?

or do you think noobs should be able to race pros at any race they can get to?

I LOVE SKATBOARDING!!!

motorcycle hair scramble racing is one of the gnarlyest scenes ive witnessed..... they send the juniors out first on a 20km single track loop.... then class after class untill the PROS.... and the pros have to race passing all the other divisions... awesome racing.... everyone having to deal with each other.

kevins just getting scared ;) heh heh

shnitz

what about another 3 years? 500 people are going to want to race danger bay.

50 juniors are going to want to race goldrush on top of the 30 women and 300 open.

Unless these events are about to become week long events with one round of elimination a day, then races have to become more specific to class or skill or whatever.

I can see there being many classes in the future having races and tracks all of their own.

SO WE CAN BITCH AND MOAN LIKE SEIGRIST!

THEN WE CAN BE IN THE X GAMES! LIKE SHERLOCK! AND HAVE FOOTBRAKE CONTESTS!@

NEW RULES

YOU HAVE TO WEAR LAKERS SHORTS AND JERSEYS AND BASKETBALL SHOES LIKE K RIMES

EVERY DAY

EVERY FYCKING DAY

It's a shame the point of this thread was lost so fast... I was pointing out some pretty poor sportsmanship, not asking for new rules. It's only within one person to judge how they ride... I don't care about the win nor the rule, but I do care about getting rammed by another rider.

Mack, listen up

you blank posting turds need to post your names before you name other people. I'm pretty sure mack doesn't do that shit on purpose, he's just a sketchy rider.

in the past there has been some whining (usually by older pros) about people "taking their lines", which is the biggest bullshit ever, the person in front clearly has first choice of lines. If you didn't want to get shafted with the shitty line, you should have gotten out in front earlier.

I really like english's idea of bronze/silver/gold classes, with top 16 requirements for the next class up.

kevin.. right on.

i'm sick of hearing about people straight arming others, pushing others, and taking dangerous lines taking people out. If you cant win a heat or a race on pure skill then you dont deserve to win!

it makes me sad to see a fellow skateboarder push someone or take someone out potentialy harming them, putting them out for a few months.. broken leg ect.. just so they can get ahead. pathetic.

so you got to the next heat.. good for you, to bad the guy taking the line you wanted ended up in the hospital because you decided pushing him out of the way was worth another ride.

groms.. i understand line taking comes with practice. we need to just educate people on what will work and what wont.. this should be established before the race.

some rules are needed, not to ruin your fun, but to make if safe so everyone can return to their skateboard the next day. we are all getting faster and faster, the roads are getting harder and harder. we need the safety of our sport to follow this and change as we are.

It can be full contact if we want to have it like that, once everyone gets used to dirty dirty racing they'll be ready for someone to grab them or push them and be ready to retaliate. Not that i'm suggest it goes this route at all, but it would be kind of fun to have a couple designated free-for-all races, on less deadly hills than say, shawnigan or saltspring.

Wheel bumpers are quite a good idea, and would be easy to make, probably requiring modified trucks though.

Saying no contact at all is pretty lame, there have been spectacular saves where people have held on to each other and both made it instead of just locking wheels and crashing. Dealing with it one a race by race or individual incident basis is probably best considering how little igsa rules matter and how organized the longboard scene in general is.....

im new on the scene and everyone i come up against is another challenge. respect is needed for your fellow rider, regardless the name. this together with safety and good sportsmanship is how things have to be.

I raced today at an outlaw and I talked to the people i was racing before the heat. helped allot there were allot less surprises.

i was at ww1..... THIS WAS NOT A NORMAL RACE.... SO THOSE PHOTOS DONT COUNT WORTH SHIT.....

some stunts i saw during those heats, keep in mind, this was an invite only, americans VS canadians fun meet...

during the same heat as mack straight armed i saw, pulling, teaming, tugging, RUNNING from one hairpin straighline to another, benching... ha ha ha.... blah blah.... it was all for fun... if they had a beef from an earlier event thats a different story... but that day at WW1 was all about cheating and having a good time!!! cause there was no winner, it was all in good fun.

all aside, i havnt seen much REAL straight arming, bad manners in a while.... what i do know is usually the first to bitch arnt as innocent as theyd like to seem........ whatever.....

kevin, it was an interesting thread, i enjoyed it for a good while... till as you pointed out, got outa control.. ha ha ha...

if a noob can catchya to take ya out on the inside, then he was faster than ya anyhow!!! ha ha ha!!!!!

solution is to be a good racer, be aware, look behind you going into interesting corners, see where a pack sits, see if someone is coming up from behind.... last year in vernon shnate kindly footbraked infront of me, i took the inside waaaaaaay too fast for my tires, i slid right through in front to the bales, he took a fine line and won that heat... cause hes experienced, aware and consistent. much like you kevin, thats why you win as often as you do... but you cant win them all. its a roll of the dice, every time.

blah blah... keep it up, enjoying the debate ;)

shnitz

McD

well thanks schnitz!

http://eastsidelongboards.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1203&highlight=redeyez+mack

I would just like to repost this for anyone who didnt actually check it out, its actually pretty hilarious. But some weird way sorta flattering at the same time. you just never know when there is an entire thread of people whining and bashing you over the internet. strange.. actually one of the weirdest things ive experienced.

I dont even know what else to say. you guys are hilarious.

"that mack guy is so sketchy" hahahhahahah fuck

mongoloids man, I tell ya.

?? or something like that

Are you sure using a race to describe 'cry babies' is what you want to do here?

If so. The next time you see me, you better hope I don't see you.

I have not the slightest idea what you are talking about Jux.

No matter what you think I'm talking about, I don't see how threatening me solves anything????? Super curious what exactly you're talking about.

I just dont see how you can relate any of what I said, to anything you just said.

Where did this all come from ???? Is it just me or does this not make any sence at all?? When did we start talking about your race????

Seriously confused*

"if a noob can catchya to take ya out on the inside, then he was faster than ya anyhow."

Come on guys!

Lets just ride our skateboards, perhaps agree to disagree, but in the end ride safe and think about how our actions affect other people.

Alright?

Again sorry about the MISUNDERSTANDING, but this thread has COMPLETELY lost all sanity, reason and focus on the original topic.

drop this thread, its quite obvioulsy gone too far.

too late

Mongoloid was defined for us all a few threads back. And no there isn't more than one interpretation of the word mack. Look it up. Your ignorance insulted 1/4 the worlds land masses.

I kill racists.

Watch what you say. Or someone (me) will call you on it.

And that's the truth. If you don't like the way someone rides because they make you feel unsafe, are assholes, or what have you. DON'T SKATE WITH THEM!

If it's a race try and see if you can get them out of your heat, or if you can get out of theirs.

Yes that's a lot of work for the organizers. Yes it seams like a bitch move. BUT, is your safety and that of the other racers not more important? Is that not how we incite change?

If it's just a free ride then just don't skate with them. If you end up at the same session. just make sure you don't skate around them.

Will this be an easy task? no. But really what choice do we have?

oh and thats really great that you would mention my accident wes. it really says alot about you, not that i needed anymore convincing. your a douche youve made that clear

Jux: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mongoloid

3rd and 5th definitions. in other words i was calling the people who made the thread about me retarded. again, completley different context. again jux, sorry i used the word mongoloid, i purley used it in a differnt context completly.

No longer in technical use because it's racist. Being that it make one think people of Mongolian decent all have down syndrome. Or vice verse.

If your sitting in your fucking room going on about who is more rasist your clearly not skating enough!!!! !!!!

For new riders like myself, it's a huge challenge just to stay on the board in a straight line at certain speeds, let alone around corners, let alone maintaining awareness of any other riders that might be around.

I want to get better. To me, that means learning through experience, riding with people who are better than me, and listening to what they have to say. I know that there are a lot of noobs that aren't interested in listening to you or feel like they have to prove themselves, but don't paint us all with that brush. The more you teach us, the better things will be for everyone.

"In regards to the right to the line, if the rider is giving some inside room its sure to be taken.."

"Good, clean racing will promote progression and keep a lot of people out of the hay and the HOSPITALS." - Danny

Thanks for the post Kevin! Dito on it all!

As far as lines, if someone takes the inside on me, I figure they deserve taking it if it's open. If it's somewhere like carnage where they're going to have the sacrifice the ideal line to take the inside, and I'm going to have to sacrifice the perfect line to not hit them. I might have to drift early, to let them drift wide past me, and then cut inside, but you should probably be able to judge what to do in that situation if you're racing. You can't always have the good line!

Ken, Thanks for posting. not everyone's the same but that's how i learn. Talk to people and learn from people who really care enough to be professional about it. By that i mean consider some of the language people use on here...the top, really fun and good riders all represent themselves and our sport in a good way. They're not selfish at all. Those are the people you wanna learn from and are taking the sport to good places. good man.

Sometimes we can't avoid contact. A good example was when Noah and I raced each other in the semis at Bonelli in 2007. Noah got inside on me in the righty and literally was trying to hold me up because he knew I wasn't going to have that much room at the exit of the turn. As he passed me on the inside and it forced me a little wide, I had to place my right hand on his board because he was so close to me, I would've used the ground but his board was there. We both pulled it off really smoothly and went on to the finals! Everyone wants to win and there will be a lot of close riding, but it's how you handle the situation that determines the outcome!

Race hard, race safe, be aware of other racers lines and have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!